Tuesday, February 9, 2010

A SPOKESMAN-REVIEW INVESTIGATIVE REPORT

Interview with Robert J. Galliher

May 18, 2005

© The Spokesman-Review 2005

The following is a full transcription of an interview between Spokesman-Review reporter Bill Morlin and Robert J. Galliher, conducted April 20, 2005. Note: This transcript contains explicit language.

Morlin: My name is Bill Morlin and I'm a reporter with The Spokesman-Review and I'm interviewing Robert J. Galliher. I'm tape recording this with your knowledge and consent. Is that right, Rob?

Rob: Yes.

Q: So, now, on the record, let's start with the beating you say you suffered in the Spokane County Jail in 2003 after the first story about you appeared in The Spokesman-Review. What specifically did the corrections officers tell you?
A: Just that I wasn't going to disgrace their police department or sheriff's department, you know, like I was trying to do.

Q: What sort of injuries did you suffer in that beating?
A: My right eye was swollen shut. My left eye was blackened. I had a cut above my right eye. Had a little cut on my elbow.

Q: And was there blood in your urine for several days?
A: Yes, when I went out to Geiger Corrections, I sought medical out there and I had blood in my urine for a couple weeks.

Q: Couple of weeks after the beating you passed blood in your urine, is that what you're telling me?
A: Yes, that's what I'm telling you.

Q: OK, and in your mind, and I don't want to lead you here, is it your opinion that you were beaten in jail because you had been quoted in the newspaper article?
A: Yeah, that's what I believe, yes.

Q: And the people that beat you, at least one or more of them made reference to the article?
A: Not specific reference to it, just reference to me disgracing their police department over the article.

Q: In reference you suing or talking about bringing a lawsuit against David Hahn?
A: Yes.

Q: Which you subsequently did in a few months later?
A: Yes.

Q: Then in the Fall of '03 you were at Geiger. And you had a visitor out there, I understand. First of all, before you had the visitor, you were called down and talked to by one of your probation officers. Could you tell me about that and what occurred there?
A: I was called down by Robin Butcher who is my case load manager, corrections officer. She told me, I'm not sure if the police department had gotten a hold of her, or Mike Pannek. Mike Pannek is the director. Mike Pannek had called her and told her to talk to me about not having any contact or saying anything about Jim West or the police department had been notified and they would file felony criminal harassment charges against me if I said anything about him.

Q: At that point had you said anything about Jim West?
A: No.

Q: Why were they leveling this threat at you?
A: I'm not really sure. Obviously, Jim West was afraid that something was going to be said about him. I'm not really sure why.

Q: Did there come a time, had you mailed any threats or mailed any communications or phone calls to Jim West at all at that point?
A: No.

Q: You had had no communication with him at all?
A: No.

Q: You're only reference to this subject matter has been what you've been quoted on in the newspaper, is that right?
A: Yes.

Q: That involved Deputy David Hahn, who had taken his own life?
A: Yes.

Q: The following day, did you then have a visitor out at Geiger?
A: Yeah, and actually not sure if it was, I think it was actually backwards. I think he came out there first, and then they called me down.

Q: So you think he showed up before you got the threat?
A: Yeah.

Q: But at some point he shows up out there.
A: Yeah.

Q: Tell me about that.
A: Well they called me down to the visiting over there at Geiger. The visiting you kinda walk over there by yourself, it's in a separate building but you're not escorted over there. I got a call down to the desk pretty late after visiting was over.

Q: Visiting ends at 9:45 p.m. So it was after 9:45 p.m.?
A: It was right around 10:30.

Q: Had you gone to bed?
A: Well, yeah, cause lights out is at 11 o'clock, so I was pretty much laying in bed, yeah. They called me down there and told me I was wanted over in visiting, which you're not escorted over there, you just go out the back door, and there's a fence on either side of the sidewalk, and you walk over to the visiting building. I walked over there and Jim West was there by himself. No one else. There was someone back in the office, but I'm not sure who it was.

Q: Were you between glass, or were you both in the contact area?
A: Between glass.

Q: And did you have to pick up a phone to talk with each other? There's a screen there, isn't there?
A: INAUDIBLE

Q: Tell me what occurred next.
A: Well, he just, he, I mean I just kinda looked at him. I was kind of in shock. Then he made some type of comment about you know I better keep quiet about, or not say anything to harm his…. I'm really not sure what the exact words were. Just that I better keep quiet about anything that's going on.

Q: Did you remember Jim West? Is that a face you'd seen at some other time in your life?
A: Yeah.

Q: Tell me about that.
A: Back at, when Dave Hahn was molesting me, I saw him back them.

Q: Which is when you were in the fifth or sixth grade?
A: Yes.

Q: About how old would you have been then?
A: Sometime around, I mean I was in between the age of nine and 11 or 12.

Q: Tell me how was it you became introduced to Jim West?
A: Through Dave Hahn.

Q: And where was that to the best of your recollection?
A: The first time was up at his apartment, up at Dave's apartment.

Q: And his apartment was where?
A: Up on 29th and Regal.

Q: Tell me about that, just give me a brief description about what occurred. Why were you there at the apartment with David Hahn?
A: David Hahn used to take me and my brother out. He was kind of a father figure in our lives when we were younger. Started out that way. Then shortly after that he started molesting me.

Q: Some of the molestations occurred at his apartment, is that right?
A: Yeah.

Q: When you were introduced to Jim West there, had you already been a victim of molestation by David Hahn?
A: Yeah.

Q: What happened then on that first day you met Jim West at David Hahn's apartment?
A: Dave ended up leaving me there with Jim West and Jim West ended up molesting me. Just grabbing my penis, fondling me, making me fondle him. Some oral sex, if you call it that.

Q: And he forced you to do this?
A: Yes.

Q: Did he tell you he was a sheriff's deputy?
A: I don't know if he did, or if Dave did.

Q: You knew he was a cop?
A: Yeah.

Q: What time of day was it?
A: It was early, sometime around noon, afternoon. I was there with him for about an hour.

Q: INAUDIBLE
A: I'm not exactly sure. Yeah, he just told me I need, I better not tell anyone about this. I mean, kind of the same threats that Dave Hahn had told me.

Q: At the point, you had not told your mother or brother, or anybody about what was happening to you, is that right?
A: Yes. That's correct.

Q: Was Jim West in uniform or was he in plain clothes when this happened?
A: Plain clothes.

Q: So number one. How many other occasions did you have that sort of contact with Jim West?
A: Probably three that I can remember.

Q: Let's go to number two. What's your best recollection where episode number two happened and how much longer after number one was that?
A: Again, I'm not sure on the time frame. I mean, you know it was a long time ago and I'm not exactly sure. And I'm not exactly sure of the order they happened in. You know I can just remember that some of the instances. One of them was at a Boy Scout function, like pine wood derby, something similar to that.

Q: Where was it at?
A: I think it was at Broadway Elementary.

Q: Was that a school?
A: Yeah.

Q: Out in the Valley? And you were racing pine wood, these little miniature wooden cars?
A: Yeah.

Q: Were you a participant there or taken there to watch them?
A: Yeah I was a participant.

Q: Then what happened there? Was it after the event?
A: Yeah, after the event.

Q: What happened?
A: He went to his car.

Q: He being?
A: Jim West.

Q: He took you out to his private vehicle?
A: Yeah.

Q: What kind of car was that?
A: I'm not sure.

Q: What happened?
A: Pretty much the same thing, he molested me. You know, fondling again, just pretty much the same thing. Him making me perform, you know, acts on him and that's pretty much it.

Q: He again was off duty when this happened? He was in his private vehicle?
A: Yes.

Q: What were the other occasions, if you remember the particulars?
A: There was one, there used to a dirt track where we rode our bicycles.

Q: INAUDIBLE
A: There was Chapter 11 on Sprague.

Q: On East Sprague? And this was an empty lot where INAUDIBLE?
A: I remember it was kind of a long ways from my house. I mean it was actually only probably two or three miles, but back then it was like across town, and I'd only gone there, I mean, a couple of times. And I was leaving there, and he pulled up in his car, the police car that time.

Q: He's in a green deputy's uniform now?
A: Yeah.

Q: He just happens to see you there, or did he?
A: I'm not sure. No, because you can't really see it from the road, I mean, I'm not sure if was coming back there looking for someone else, or, I'm not exactly sure how he ended up there.

Q: What happened then?
A: That time he put my bike in the trunk and gave me a ride home. Not home, close to home and stopped on the way, somewhere and parked, and did the same thing again.

Q: Sheriff's car?
A: Yes.

Q: No mistake about that?
A: No.

Q: He again molests you. So that's occasion number three, not that there's necessarily a sequence here. And what were the other occasions? You say there's at least four occasions?
A: The other one, he picked me down at East Bowl, the bowling alley we always used to hang out and he picked me up there one time.

Q: Tell me about that episode, Rob.
A: There was a bunch of us that always used to hang out at the bowling alley. He showed up one night when I was leaving and the same thing. He picked me up in his police car.

Q: This was again (INAUDIBLE) You knew him?
A: I knew him from Dave. I mean, and I'm not sure why I would go with him, I really don't know.

Q: Well you were a boy then and you're a man now. You had the brain power of a child at the time and here's cop showing up. What did you call him? What did you refer to his as? Did you call him Jim, on a first name basis?
A: I believe so, uh-huh.

Q: What happened?
A: I'm not even really sure if I ever called him by a name.

Q: How had Hahn, let's go back to the East Bowl thing. So what happens, he picks you up at East Bowl while you're hanging out there with so of your buddies? Was Brett there that night?
A: No, cause Brett was a few years old than me, so he hung out there at a time also. But by the time I got there, he'd moved on, he was in junior or high, or whatever. We really didn't hang out together there.

Q: So this East Bowl thing, is this in the evening at your best recollection?
A: Yes.

Q: What happened, just give me the brief description on what happened then.
A: He just picked me up and drove me somewhere again and molested me.

Q: In the car?
A: Yes.

Q: What did he do with you afterwards?
A: Just dropped me off.

Q: At your home?
A: Yeah.

Q: I don't want to lead you, what did he tell you? Or did he tell you anything?
A: He just told me, I'm not really sure exactly what his … I just remember threats about going to jail and stuff like that. Taking my family to jail or something like that.

Q: It's terrible for me to even ask this question, but what's going through the head of a fifth grader when a cop is molesting you like that?
A: I couldn't really speak for everyone, but for me …

Q: What's going through your head?
A: For me, I think it was probably that someone is paying attention to me. I didn't have a father around, and sometimes negative affection is better than no affection at all.

Q: Do you feel that what happened to you then at the hands of David Hahn and Jim West have left lifelong scars on you?
A: I do know, yeah.

Q: Tell me about that.
A: It's kind of hard to describe. It's INAUDIBLE every day. It's pretty much all I think about now especially bringing it back up. I didn't really, especially being sober. Now. My whole life I've been using drugs, and drinking and never really knew why. And I never really thought about what had happened. Now that I'm sober, it's different. Now, it's a lot tougher.

Q: There was a time about a week ago that the county attorneys, who are defending the county in this lawsuit, came and asked you some of these same questions that we are talking about today, is that correct?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you just generally characterize for me, how many questions did they ask you about Jim West and his molestation of you?
A: I don't know if I can put a number on it. Just basically what had happened.

Q: You detailed the fact that Jim West had molested you? You detailed that to the county attorneys when they deposed you under oath last week?
A: Yes.

Q: They asked you even though Jim West isn't their client, they asked you questions about being molested by Jim West and David Hahn?
A: Yes.

Q: Did they go into the same sort of details that we've talked about there today?
A: Yes.

Q: In terms of numbers, so you're saying approximately INAUDIBLE
A: With Hahn it was 30 or 40, somewhere around there.

Q: How much, when the molestation by Jim West is occurring, is David Hahn still alive? Did all this happen before David Hahn died? With West, that is?
A: Not really. It was so frequent with Hahn that Jim West was just kind of in and then out. He moved … I don't really remember when he came in and started it, or when he left. It was quite a while before Hahn killed himself, West stopped coming around.

Q: The day he killed himself, he picked you up?
A: Yeah, he picked me up. I believe at a park near our house.

Q: In the Spokane Valley?
A: Yes.

Q: In his car, or in his private vehicle?
A: In his car.

Q: You were playing in the park and he came by, or what happened? Do you recall the particulars?
A: I'm not sure what I was doing up near the park. It was right near our house.

Q: Do you recall the name of the park?
A: Yeah, Terrace View.

Q: Terrace View Park?
A: Yeah.

Q: What happened next?
A: He just picked me up like he normally did and took me up to his apartment.

Q: The apartment was on what street?
A: On 29th and Regal.

Q: On Regal?
A: Yes.

Q: What happened there?
A: Actually, it's on like 31st or something and Regal.

Q: Just across the TV stations up there?
A: Yeah, it's two or three blocks up from 29th.

Q: Can you describe basically what did the apartment look like? Two-story, five-story, etc.)
A: The building or his apartment?

Q: Both.
A: Two-story I believe.

Q: What floor was his apartment on?
A: He was on the bottom floor.

Q: It's a place you've been before?
A: Yeah.

Q: What happened there?
A: He took me into the apartment. He was kind of being, I'm remember he wasn't really being himself that day. He was kind of being quiet. He molested me, just like any other day. I remember I sat while he was on the phone for a while. He was on the phone for quite a while. Then he took me into the bedroom. We were sitting on the bed and he pulled his gun out, which he'd done before. This time he put the gun up to my head.

Q: Put the gun to your head?
A: Yeah.

Q: Why was he doing that?
A: I don't know.

Q: Had he ever done that before?
A: I mean not necessarily to my head, but he'd pull the gun out and point it at me before. He put the guy up to my head, I closed my eyes, and he pulled the trigger. And in between …

Q: He pulled the trigger while it was pointed at your head?
A: No, in between when my eyes were closed, he moved the gun to his head and blew his brains out.

Q: And you were there when this happened?
A: Yeah.

Q: What happened?
A: I just ran.

Q: You ran out the door.
A: Yeah. I don't know what was really going through my head. I walked home, I lived in the Valley, so it was a long walk. I mean it took me, probably almost all night to get home. I went down to the bowling alley where I just hang out and slept in this field down there.

Q: By East Bowl?
A: Yeah.

Q: You didn't even go home that night then?
A: No.

Q: Did you go all the way home and then go to the bowling alley?
A: No, the bowling alley was on the way home.

Q: That's where you usually run into some of your buddies?
A: Yeah.

Q: They weren't there that night?
A: No, it was late, early morning when I got there.

Q: When did you finally go home?
A: Earlier that morning.

Q: What was the scene like, were you aware, was there any doubt in your mind that he'd kill himself when you saw this happen?
A: I'm not really sure, not really. I really didn't stick around and check out, you know, anything, I just left.

Q: So you're sitting on the bed side by side, is that right?
A: Yes.

Q: Is he on the right or the left of you?
A: The right, I believe.

Q: He was on your right?
A: Yeah.

Q: He puts the gun to your head?
A: Yes.

Q: What was he saying? What was the last thing he said to you?
A: He didn't really say anything. He just told me to come in there and sit down and I did. I was young, I really didn't say anything to him. I really didn't have any conversations with him.

Q: Did he ever offer you money, or food, or drugs in exchange ….?
A: Drugs he did.

Q: David Hahn?
A: Yeah.

Q: What kind of drugs?
A: Marijuan
A:

Q: Would you smoke marijuana at his apartment with him?
A: He'd give it to me to take with me.

Q: Small quantities?
A: Yeah.

Q: A reefer, or just a baggy or what?
A: Once or twice a baggy with a little bit in it. A couple times a pipe loaded. He's just give me the pipe to take.

Q: So this particular day he's on your right side. Do you think he's going to shoot you?
A: Not really, I don't think. Because he'd done it before, like I said, and I thought it was just more of a scare, maybe a scare tactic, or something to tell me to be quiet, keep quiet about it.

Q: So you're sitting there with your eyes shut, and how much time goes by?
A: I'm not really, not much.

Q: What happens next?
A: Then he pulled the trigger.

Q: You heard gun fire?
A: Yeah.

Q: What happens when you open your eyes?
A: He was laying there, bleeding.

Q: Was he fully clothed, partially clothed, naked, what was he wearing?
A: I don't remember the clothing. INAUDIBLE

Q: Did it occur to you to stick around and call police or anything?
A: No, I don't think so, no.

Q: That thought didn't cross your mind? Why's that?
A: I'm not really sure. My only thought was to get out of there.

Q: Have any investigators for the sheriff's department or anyone else ever ask you or interviewed you about this topic?
A: No.

Q: Do you find this unusual?
A: No, because no one ever knew he was molesting me either. As far as I know. Well, actually, they might have. I'm not really sure. The whole thing happened, and then it was over and done with and nothing ever happened to him.

Q: Did you ever confide in anyone that you were there when he killed himself?
A: No.

Q: You never told anyone? You wrote about it in the letter.
A: Yeah.

Q: Tell me about writing that letter. When and where did you write that letter?
A: I wrote that letter when I was in prison, just because of everything that had gone on. I'm back in prison, I got time, I'm not really doing anything, so I wanted to see about getting some help for myself while I was sitting there. I read this book Abused Boys.

Q: This letter is written on January 15, 2004 and you wrote it from a jail cell while you were at Coyote Ridge in Connell, Washington?
A: Actually I wrote it when I was at Shelton.

Q: In Shelton?
A: Yes.

Q: How would you come across the book Abused Boys.
A: One of the people who worked in the chapel gave it to me.

Q: You read the book?
A: Yeah.

Q: What did you think of the book?
A: I thought it was a good book. It pretty much covered a lot of areas. A lot of it didn't pertain to me, but a lot of it did.

Q: You could see yourself being referenced in the book?
A: Yeah. So I was kinda just writing this more for just myself, but then I wrote. .. I finished writing this to this doctor that had wrote the book.

Q: This is Mic Hunter?
A: Yeah.

Q: So you got his name by reading the book?
A: Yeah.

Q: Did you mail it to Mic Hunter?
A: Yes.

Q: From the prison?
A: Yes.

Q: Did you hear back from Mic Hunter?
A: Yes.

Q: What did he tell you when he responded?
A: I think he gave me a couple of people that I could get a hold of. He really didn't say much of anything.

Q: Do you still have his response?
A: Yes.

Q: You do? Do you have that back here?
A: It's actually at work. In a box at work, but I still have it.

Q: I would be interested, at your brother's shop?
A: Yeah.

Q: If you could get me a copy, or mail me a copy, I'd like to see that. Because I'm going to call him and we'll talk about that in a minute. So you sort of laid out this whole story including the fact that you were there when Hahn killed himself, the fact that you'd been abused by both West and Hahn.
A: Yeah. This was the first time I told anyone a lot of this and the reason I was telling him this was because, like I said, he was a doctor. He's written a lot of books and I figured he would be able to give me some kind of help. I didn't really want to hold anything back from him because it was kind of the first time I really pursued any type of help.

Q: Did you follow up on the advice he gave you? Did you contact any of the people he suggested?
A: No, because where I was at I didn't have access. He gave me e-mail, place to email, but I didn't have any access to email.

Q: So you specifically either been given or sought out or had the ability or funds to get the sort of help he suggested you get over this issue?
A: I've started seeking it out, but I haven't had the funds or the support of anyone. I've talked to, you know I'm on probation, I'm on parole or whatever, I've talked to my probation officer about any kind help he can give me. The way they do it in prison is they have a risk management assessment of you while you're in there and it's scored from one through four, or actually A through E I think, E being the least likely to reoffend, or the least aggressive probation, or whatever. A being the worst. And from what I know you're supposed to, I'm an RMA (risk management aide), so I'm the most likely to reoffend. They consider me the worst of the worst, which I really don't think I'm that bad.

Q: You've never been convicted of any violent crime?
A: Yes, I have.

Q: That was what?
A: That was a second degree robbery.

Q: A second degree robbery?
A: When I was, in 1981, or end of 1982. Beginning of '82 I believe.

Q: Which would have been right after this whole episode of Hahn happened?
A: Yes. Anyway, I'm supposed to have some sort of resources available to me being at the risk management level I'm at and so far I haven't received any help.

Q: So the state has done nothing to help you?
A: Nothing.

Q: Why is it, I want to jump back to the Geiger episode. When Jim West showed up out there, there's no doubt in your mind that when he showed up out there and sent the message to you that the article had already been published about David Hahn. Is that right?
A: Yes.

Q: It was after that article he shows up and sends you the message?
A: Yes.

Q: Why, in your opinion was it that he sent you that message and leveled that threat at you?
A: To keep me quiet. Obviously, I guess around the time he was running for office. Yeah, to keep me quiet.

Q: Did it work?
A: Oh yeah, yeah.TAPE NUMBER 2 BEGINS

Q: Were talking about why Jim West came out to Geiger and why he sent the threat to you? You're not sure which occurred first, whether Butcher talked to you or whether West came out, but both occurred?
A: Yes.

Q: Where did counselor Robin Butcher talk to you about this?
A: In her office.

Q: In her office at Geiger?
A: Yes.

Q: Just go over that conversation. You were called down there. Just tell me what happened in that conversation.
A: She told me she received a call from Mike Pannek who is the director or superintendent and he received a call from, I'm not sure if it was actually from Jim West or from the police department. She made reference to the police department had been notified and if I made any threatening comments or just if I said anything about Jim West he would file criminal harassment against me or something to that effect and to just stay away from me, which I really didn't have any access to him anyway.

Q: You previously told me that you were essentially being told to keep your mouth shut. Can you tell me that in your words?
A: Yes. Exactly. I was being told to keep my mouth shut or they would file charges against me.

Q: Did you say they also threatened to throw you in the hole or he had friends in the prison system that would see to it that you were thrown in the hole?
A: I'm not sure if that was said or not, I'm not really sure.

Q: But they told you to keep your mouth shut or you would face additional criminal charges?
A: Yes.

Q: How was it that Jim West found out that you were at Geiger?
A: That I'm not sure.

Q: Speculate for me. How would they find out where you're at?
A: I had just been arrested. It could have been through any number of people.

Q: Wouldn't that indicate, though, that he probably had either somebody in the police department…. How would he know you've just been arrested? That wasn't in the paper, was it?
A: It probably was.

Q: You have no idea how he found out where you're at?
A: No.

Q: Back to the deposition, what surprised you about the line of questioning from the county attorneys?
A: I'm not really sure if anything really surprised me. I know he was trying to focus more on Jim West than he was on Hahn.

Q: Why's that?
A: Probably because Jim West is still alive and Hahn is not.

Q: Obviously Jim West is not his client, but David Hahn was.
A: I'm not really sure.

Q: Were they surprised about you revealing that you'd been molested also by Jim West? I'm asking for your opinion.
A: He didn't act surprised, no.

Q: Who was present for that, and was that the first time you officially told anybody from Spokane County about being molested by Jim West?
A: Yeah, I believe so.

Q: But this letter of yours has been turned over to the county, is that right?
A: It has now.

Q: So they know through to the letter and your deposition that you were molested by Jim West?
A: Yes.

Q: And there's no doubt in your mind about what you're telling us?
A: No.

Q: The question is going to come, they're going to say, well, this individual was interviewed by this reporter two years ago. Why didn't you tell me two years ago that you were molested by Jim West?
A: Because at that time I hadn't told anyone. I mean it just wasn't. I'm really not sure. I was still afraid of him, for one. I mean, he held a pretty high job. He's not, someone in my position, wanted really anything to do with him. I really just didn't want anything to do with him. It's easier to talk about someone who's dead then it is someone who still holds a high office like that and has power over you

Q: What did you think when he was elected mayor of Spokane?
A: I thought it was pretty sick, that he's coming back to Spokane after what he'd done there.

Q: How many other boys, are you aware of any other boys that he may have molested?
A: Yeah, one other.

Q: Who is that?
A: Michael Grant.

Q: What can you tell me about that?
A: He told me he had a run in with Jim West when he was a young boy.

Q: Did he give you any specifics?
A: He told me about an instance where he was, him and a couple other boys had been throwing rocks at an abandoned house at the windows, and breaking the windows, and somehow West had shown up. I suppose someone called the police and West had shown up.

Q: Was this in the Spokane Valley also?
A: Yes, I believe so. He didn't really give me the exact location.

Q: Did he say how old he was at the time?
A: No, he said he was in… he might be a couple of years older than me.

Q: This is Michael Grant?
A: Yes.

Q: Did he give you any time frame as to when this happened?
A: No, back in the early 80s, late 70s, early 80s.

Q: What did he say happened, or did he give you the particulars?
A: He just told me West had picked him up and molested him. The other boy, they'd ridden away from the house where they were breaking the windows, and he'd got stopped leaving and that he'd been molested by him.

Q: That he was stopped by himself?
A: Yeah.

Q: Molested by Jim West on duty in a sheriff's car?
A: Yes.

Q: When was it Michael Grant tell you that?
A: 2003.

Q: Where? Were you both locked up together?
A: Yes.

Q: What facility?
A: Geiger.

Q: At Geiger? You met him while you were at Geiger?
A: Yes.

Q: Was this before or after West showed up out there?
A: Before.

Q: Did you know Michael Grant prior to that?
A: No.

Q: He's just an inmate you bump into?
A: Yes.

Q: Do you know where his current whereabouts?
A: No I don't.

Q: Do you know where he's from? Or how I can find him?
A: No, he said he was living down in Omak or somewhere up north with his mother.

Q: Is he Native American?
A: He might be, I'm not really sure. He was there for a couple of days, he got moved to a different building and I never really saw him again and didn't really have any contact with him after that.

Q: The night the mayor showed up out there, when you went back to your cell, were there other inmates in the cell with you?
A: Yes.

Q: Did you tell them either that night or the next morning about who had come to see you?
A: Yes.

Q: Tell me what you told them.
A: They scattered. They really didn't want anything to with me.

Q: You told them that Jim West had come out to see you?
A: Yeah.

Q: And are they believing you?
A: Yeah, they believed me cause I was called down there and I came back 15 minutes later and told them what had happened and they pretty much didn't want anything to do with me just because of his position. They wouldn't even been seen outside with me or anything. Here they are making comments about different vans parked around the perimeter and someone taking a shot at me or something. It was in kind of a joking manner, but on the other hand, they were serious about it too. Because they were kind of staying away from me.

Q: They were freaked out about this guy, this powerful guy coming out there and threatening you?
A: Absolutely?

Q: Is that what you're saying?
A: Yeah.

Q: What's your current state of mind regarding Jim West? Are you still fearful of him?
A: Absolutely.

Q: INAUDIBLE tell that
A: I mean it's hard to explain, I'm just paranoid. I don't know if it's due to mental problems. I just look around all the time, when I'm out on my deck smoking cigarettes, I'm always wondering if someone through the trees is watching me. I can't concentrate at work, it's just hard to perform anything.

Q: Other than David Hahn and Jim West, were there any sheriff's department personnel that you were aware that molested you or other boys that you are aware of?
A: No, not that I'm aware of.
A: The only other thing is you mentioned Dave Hahn had given me drugs, marijuana, Jim West had also, up at Dave Hahn's house. He gave me a pipe.

Q: Did he smoke it too?
A: No.

Q: Like a little treat, like a little reward.
A: Yeah, exactly.

Q: How many times did Jim West give you marijuana?
A: Just once that I know of specifically. The other times, I know he did one time, the first time I met him. I don't know if he did another pipe full or sometimes a little tiny bit in a baggie. Not much, nothing more than a couple bowls.

Q: Did they give you any indication where, Hahn or West, where they were getting these drugs?
A: No.

Q: Where do you think they were getting the drugs?
A: Probably off people they pulled over and confiscated their stash. That's the only thing that I can think of. They never smoked it with me, so I don't think they were using themselves.

Q: Did you smoke the stuff yourself?
A: Yes.

Q: If was the real stuff?
A: Yes.

Q: It wasn't tobacco? You're sure of that?
A: Yeah.

Q: That was on one occasion he gave you that.?
A: That I can recall him actually giving it to me, yes.

Q: One other thing and I want to take these separately. How did David Hahn respond to you in terms of gentleness and aggressiveness and kindness and how did he threaten to keep you quiet?
A: He was always real nice and kind and it was probably because we had a longer term relationship. He was coming around for the three or four years, pretty frequently. He was probably nicer because he knew he was coming back. As far as threats and what not, he threatened to put my family in jail, putting handcuffs on me.

Q: If you ever talked?
A: He was a little more aggressive, not friendly. He just wasn't kind, not really sure how to explain it.

Q: A little more physical and more aggressive and less gentle? Is that what you're saying?
A: Yes.

Q: What would you like to see happen now? Should the public, in your view, know about the history of our mayor and know what he did to you and possibly other boys?
A: Yeah, I believe they should know. I'm not sure how it's going to go over. I'm just not sure. It's hard to explain. I've gone through so much over this that it really doesn't matter what else happens. It's over and done with. I mean it would be nice if something happened about this because he really doesn't deserve to hold that office.

Q: What if he was still in the state Senate?
A: Yeah, he doesn't deserve to hold any public office.

Q: In your view, has he gotten away with the secret for over a quarter century then?
A: He's gotten away with it, yeah.

Q: For 25 years?
A: Yeah.

Q: Your mother is going to know where you're at, if I need to get back to you. She'll always have a phone number for you?
A: Yeah.

Q: I've agreed to talk to (attorney) John Allison, and you've really said nothing here pertaining to your legal status.

Q: INAUDIBLE - ask about Jonny Quest

Q: In the letter you likened Jim West to Jonny Quest. Tell me about the Jonny Quest.
A: Just because of the name.

Q: Jim West, Jonny Quest, they sound the same?
A: Yeah. When you were a young kid, and Jonny Quest would come up …

Q: Jonny Quest was a cool cartoon, but I used to hate that. Bring up a frickin' cartoon now, the name was almost the same, and the name would bring up his memory. It was pretty much a name link.

Q: There's no characters in the cartoon that reminded you of Jim? It's just the name?
A: It's just a name.

Q: You specifically remember that? And it was a cartoon at that same time would be watching on TV?
A: I used to watch cartoons all the time and that one would come on and it would just make me sick.(UNSUBSTANTIATED ALLEGATIONS REDACTED)

Q: Based on those beatings, based on the cars outside the apartment, based on the beating in the jail, based on a prominent official showing up at Geiger, which is a county facility, do you believe your civil rights have been violated?
A: Absolutely. Q, Tell me that in your words.
A: I just think I was intimidated into not saying anything. Even with all the physical abuse that I did receive from them, just their presence and the sheriff's body as a whole can intimate you without actually doing anything to you, without physical contact. Maybe it's because of what's happened to me, that I feel that way, or maybe it's the truth. I'm not really sure.

Q: You believe as we sit here today your civil rights were violated?
A: Yes.

Q: Give me that in a sentence.
A: I believe my civil rights have been violated by the sheriff's department, by the corrections department out at Geiger who told me not to say anything, by Jim West, by the jailers at the county jail who beat me.

Q: At some point you were held, I understand, in the jail, without clothes and deprived of a toothbrush for about a two-week period. Tell me about that.
A: I'm not sure if it was two weeks. It was more like maybe a week after this beating took place I was taken up to the hole on six east. I put in numerous kites to see medical, which no one ever responded to. This was after I'd been beaten up, I'm peeing blood, my eye's swollen shut, the other one's bruised up. I put in three or four grievances, which are a formal complaint against the jail which they are supposed to answer, whether it's valid or not, they're supposed to give you a response. Never heard anything about that. They didn't give me any blankets, no bedding.

Q: You're held stripped naked in a cell?
A: Yeah.

Q: Were you on suicide watch?
A: No.

Q: Why did they tell you they were holding you like that?
A: They didn't have to give you any reason. They don't have to say anything to you and they don't.

Q: Were you given meals?
A: Yeah.Q, You were given meals and water, but no toothpaste or hygiene, were you allowed to shower?
A: Not the first week, I don't think. They moved me downstairs after that. It might have been two weeks, actually.

Q: So for my purposes, how long do you believe you were held in this cell?
A: I know I was held for at least week.

Q: And maybe as long as two weeks?
A: Yeah.

Q: This was immediately after the beating?
A: They beat me on the second floor and beat me all the way to the six east, into the jail cell. They beat me in the cell, crammed me underneath the bunk in the cell.

Q: What were they beating you with?
A: Their fists as far as I know. I'm not sure. I tried to have my face covered up.

Q: Were they kicking you?
A: Yeah.

Q: So feet and fists?
A: Yeah.

Q: How many jailers were involved in that?
A: I'm not exactly sure, but I know there were at least three, probably four.

Q: One was female?
A: Two of them might have been female.

Q: Two of them female, and the other male?
A: Yes.

Q: Were there witnesses to this.
A: Yes.

Q: Do you know the names of some of those witnesses?(NAMES REDACTED)
A: The whole second floor saw them take me down and beat me, right in front, they're all standing at their windows. So whoever was on the second floor on that particular day and that time probably saw it. I didn't have any access to get any names other than people coming up to me and saying I saw it and I wrote those names down.

Q: It was your mother who asked for and got the FBI investigation?A, Yes.

Q: Have you seen the results of that investigation?
A: No.

Q: Did Agent (NAME REDACTED) interview you?
A: Yes.

Q: Where at?
A: Out at Geiger.

Q: That would have been in the Fall of '03?
A: Yes.